Advertisement
03:29, 18 April 2009
by Douglas Vakoch
For nearly 50 years, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) has scanned the heavens with radio telescopes for signs of alien technology. At the same time, scientists have painstakingly crafted messages to send in reply. When NASA launched its Voyager missions in 1977, for example, both spacecraft carried audio recordings depicting the diversity of life and culture on Earth (see gallery - www.newscientist.com/gallery...aging-et ).
But never have those messages truly represented all of humanity. On 15 May that will change as the SETI Institute launches a project to collect messages from people around the world, messages.seti.org/ . Though there are currently no plans to transmit these messages into space, the project aims to foster a global discussion about whether we should send more than symbolic messages to the stars, and if so, what we should say.
The standard wisdom in interstellar diplomacy is to avoid controversy – a sometimes elusive goal. In the early 1970s, NASA attached plaques to two Pioneer spacecraft etched with basic mathematics, science and line drawings of a man and woman. Some complained the space agency was sending "smut into space", with the naked figures revealing more than they deemed proper for a first encounter.
Other messages have escaped such criticism. One from the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico depicts the human form in so few pixels that its sex is not clear. The Voyager recordings excluded war, poverty and disease.
However, a comprehensive message to the stars should not shrink from the details. Might not an advanced extraterrestrial species, savvy in the ways of intelligent being, notice that something was missing from our description of ourselves? An acknowledgment of our flaws and frailties seems a more honest approach than sending a sanitised, one-sided story. Honesty is a good starting point for a conversation that could last for generations.
Douglas Vakoch, director of interstellar message composition at the SETI Institute in Mountain View, California, says any future messages sent to ET should reflect the human race as it really is – warts and all.
"One of the standard assumptions [about composing messages] is we should talk about what we all have in common; we should avoid controversy," he says. "My concern is that if we do that, our messages may be pretty brief and pretty boring."
If we continue to dodge controversy, we risk sending messages that are both brief and boring. We sometimes clash in our beliefs and customs; we disagree over matters of taste and morality. In no small part this diversity of perspectives is what characterises us as a species. And it may just make us intriguing enough to the inhabitants of other worlds to elicit a reply.
*Douglas Vakoch is director of interstellar message composition at the SETI Institute in Mountain View, California
Original Story:
www.newscientist.com/article...-et.html
and
www.newscientist.com/article...rth.html
by Douglas Vakoch
For nearly 50 years, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) has scanned the heavens with radio telescopes for signs of alien technology. At the same time, scientists have painstakingly crafted messages to send in reply. When NASA launched its Voyager missions in 1977, for example, both spacecraft carried audio recordings depicting the diversity of life and culture on Earth (see gallery - www.newscientist.com/gallery...aging-et ).
But never have those messages truly represented all of humanity. On 15 May that will change as the SETI Institute launches a project to collect messages from people around the world, messages.seti.org/ . Though there are currently no plans to transmit these messages into space, the project aims to foster a global discussion about whether we should send more than symbolic messages to the stars, and if so, what we should say.
The standard wisdom in interstellar diplomacy is to avoid controversy – a sometimes elusive goal. In the early 1970s, NASA attached plaques to two Pioneer spacecraft etched with basic mathematics, science and line drawings of a man and woman. Some complained the space agency was sending "smut into space", with the naked figures revealing more than they deemed proper for a first encounter.
Other messages have escaped such criticism. One from the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico depicts the human form in so few pixels that its sex is not clear. The Voyager recordings excluded war, poverty and disease.
However, a comprehensive message to the stars should not shrink from the details. Might not an advanced extraterrestrial species, savvy in the ways of intelligent being, notice that something was missing from our description of ourselves? An acknowledgment of our flaws and frailties seems a more honest approach than sending a sanitised, one-sided story. Honesty is a good starting point for a conversation that could last for generations.
Douglas Vakoch, director of interstellar message composition at the SETI Institute in Mountain View, California, says any future messages sent to ET should reflect the human race as it really is – warts and all.
"One of the standard assumptions [about composing messages] is we should talk about what we all have in common; we should avoid controversy," he says. "My concern is that if we do that, our messages may be pretty brief and pretty boring."
If we continue to dodge controversy, we risk sending messages that are both brief and boring. We sometimes clash in our beliefs and customs; we disagree over matters of taste and morality. In no small part this diversity of perspectives is what characterises us as a species. And it may just make us intriguing enough to the inhabitants of other worlds to elicit a reply.
*Douglas Vakoch is director of interstellar message composition at the SETI Institute in Mountain View, California
Original Story:
www.newscientist.com/article...-et.html
and
www.newscientist.com/article...rth.html
posted by:
|
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Sun, April 19, 2009 - 3:09 PMIf there is an intelligent species currently aware of us -- they're likely so advanced that they have known of our dire side as well as our nobler one.
Or at least what we perceive as noble and dire to them? -
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Tue, May 5, 2009 - 1:02 AM"they're likely so advanced that they have known of our dire side as well as our nobler one." - Froz
what's being advanced got to do with knowing of a dire and noble side? unless they didn't have one or the other or neither. knowing of a dire and noble side seems to be enough to become aware of them. either they can relate to us or not, having their own direness and nobleness. technological advancement could very well be an entirely separate area, much like here, socially our advancement is a mixed bag. science/fantasy fiction writers/story tellers have been imagining various 'first' encounters since before there was writing, while we appear to be endlessly fascinating to ourselves, it might not be the case to a really advanced intelligence, for better or worse humanity carries a shame that may very well be enough to keep our isolation a matter of protection. theirs and ours. some of us try mightily to hide our problems from our young, mostly it's just a delaying tactic. to me it borders on the absurd that we are the lone intelligence in this universe and I feel a profound sadness and disappointment that we might just not be that interesting enough to say hi to.
well that's one dire side.
there really does appear to be a lot of space out there, the old star trek 'prime directive' seems as plausible as anything might.
I don't expect a visit anytime soon, if or when we meet.....it will be out There.
our noble side may demand nothing less.
-
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Tue, May 5, 2009 - 9:24 AMYes, indeed, I've been thinking exactly what you've mentioned, Glen - "... we might just not be that interesting enough to say hi to."
However, I do not see the so-called "first contact" to be "out There" - since I believe the only reason we haven't "officially" communicated yet is due to the fact mentioned above - I do believe they are here already, and have been for a lo-o-o-ong long time. Heck, as I had said it in the past - it is THEIR planet, not our. We are only here for a ride; until they get tired of us; and then, they will wipe us out, and move on to the next stage....
But, enough with the happy, back to the topic...
...
Interestingly enough, Glen, it so happened that I am reading a book right now that, in part, talks exactly what we are talking about here. While reading your reply, I immediately recalled the pages I had read last night.
This is a well-known book by Jules Verne - "Five Weeks in a Balloon" and "Around the World in 80 Days", (two in one). This is one of the first editions of the book, 1874-76 (!), (now you know why I am re-reading it ;) ). I bought it last summer, (along with another one), for $3.00 (three(!) dollars) each, at a book sale, at one of the local libraries in Mass. . This is the original, unmarked, "undisturbed", unchanged to suit any contemporary, changing, social and otherwise views and cliché - pure original text from the year 1874(!), Eighteen Seventy Four.
It is remarkable to be able to see how much Time, Politics, and Translations can change written words; (which reminds me of all the so-called holy writings - right now, I can see what atrocity must have been done to them, to all of them, throughout eons(!) )
So, last night I was at the chapter were they had confirmed the source of Nile, and moved on to the unexplored parts of the continent. At some point, they flew over a battlefield, and witnessed the full blast of despicability while watching it from above. In the book he goes into some descriptions of cannibalism, (right on the field), the eagerness of the victor to cut a part, of his fallen enemy's body and "anxiously sink his teeth into a still-warm flesh"; women crawling among the dead and cutting their heads off to pile them on the side of the field that belongs to their village as trophies, and occasionally fighting for those very heads for the turn to cut them off...
I mean, ... God Damn It!
Having a well-developed, vivid, imagination, I managed to imagine myself in that basket flying next to those three folks, to "see" the enraged Kennedy, shocked Doc. Fergusson, disgusted Joe. I could swear I almost heard Dick exclaiming "Pah! Swine!" and placing that bullet into the forehead of that "human" animal eating hand of somebody he just killed...
...
So, just imagining myself, next to those three people, (not even participating in the trip), I was appalled beyond any utternity of disgust. Now, imagine them, the folks from Out There, having seen all our vileness and despicability since the very cradle of us consciously realizing ourselves as individuals for the first time - all our filth, and scummity.
Would anybody want to say "Hi" to us? - ... And you are exactly right - No one. ...
I wouldn't climb down the rope from the balloon to shake the hands of that savagery; so wouldn't They come, (or reveal themselves), from Out There, and want to give us a loving hug, piece of advice, and reassurance that everything will be alright. That is, until they saw that we are trying, attempting without a breath to spare to become better, to grow up, to learn.
I can only imagine what extent of filth and vileness they have seen about us throughout the thousands of years.... I can only imagine....
I am surprised they haven't wiped us out That Far(!) -- Truly Angels' Patience.
We cannot "artificially" drag everyone to "heaven"; and we shouldn't. What we do have to do is simply to begin with ourselves, that's all. And when we see that somebody needs help, don't just sit there and watch him, or them, breaking his neck over and over again, repeatedly walking into the same "trap". From their perspective, they might not even be able to see where they are making a mistake, but you can. So, I say, -ASK- if they want help, (do not force your help onto somebody), and if they do, point out where you think they might be missing something. This will help them to learn, you to understand something (I won't say what exactly one will have understood - he will have to find it out for himself after he has done it; believe me it's worth it), and in general, from helping, the pressure will recede a little more, so that the people will be more able to think clearer, and not be overwhelmed by all that was coming at them, (which is, most of the time, purely artificially generated by some dumb f#6$in' idiot(s) who decided to "teach" someone a lesson, or two; himself being a complete catatonic and taken any and all original meanings of the idea (including that of "giving a lesson") out of the context to an abhorrently atrocious extent).
We do not have to do something "for somebody" - no. We need to "Help One to Help Himself" - That(!) is what we have to do.
...
I foresee that some may say, "Oh, we all know that, dammit! It's elemental!"
Well, I reply - "Then Why The Hell Do You Not Act On It?!"
-
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Tue, May 5, 2009 - 10:27 AMI think we make a lot of assumptions about alien civilizations when we debate whether or not they want to contact us. Anthropomorphism is obviously a coping tool we use as we do it to animals and gods...
It first assumes that the physical laws of science that we know so far are breakable (or wrong). Biological life is pretty fragile and the time and distance it would take to travel in the hostile depths of space do not lend itself well to complex organisms that are dependent on their biosphere. Obviously the idea of panspermia is out there, but simple organisms like bacteria won't communicate much to us.
If they are so advance and complex that they could get here it assumes they would even pay attention to us. Imagine yourself pondering an ant hill surrounded by water, with no real ability for the ant to leave its hill, and even if it does swim over to you? Then what? Would you even notice? Also imagine yourself taking a gorilla from it's natural habitat and trying to talk to it and integrate it into your own society. Likely we would be the gorillas and if they had any interest in us it might be more plausible for them to isolate us to our habitat, to keep us out of the way; we're nuisances, like cosmic squirrels. ;)
Next it assumes they have emotions as we understand them and would even "care." Imagine a cold human innovation, unhindered by morals, giving a species the ability to do what is deemed best for survival and propagation. Unhindered by emotion we would decimate the rest of our own natural world and anything else that stood in our way in our quest to spread ourselves to the stars and insure as many of our own species survives as possible. Chance are good if they have technology and power and don't fit inside an anthropomorphic box, the first time we see them will be the last time we see them...
If they are anything like us, I think far more likely than staring down an ET, we'll see their technology, likely a probe which would be suited for the harshness of space and can travel tirelessly on a one way trip.
I don't doubt that for a second there is other, extremely alien life all over the universe, but how much life evolves the ability to self reflect and look beyond their own planet, let alone develop the technology to leave it or get a timely message out over vast distances and amounts of time (I find it more useful to think of distance in space in terms of time rather than distance)?
I doubt too many species get as far as we do, getting further has to be exponentially more difficult.
Also, you have mentioned these things before Serge, I'm curious to know where you're getting your info and ideas from regarding the presence of aliens. Thx. -
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Tue, May 5, 2009 - 11:56 AMAll over the place, jeremy... I get them all over the place... :))
...
You see, your line of thought is a little off about the ability to travel in space. This is our typical way of thinking - linear. Yours, mine, all of us.
There exist many other ways to travel in a much different, and clever, way than just in a straight line from point A to point B.
I.E., there is no need to spend hundreds and thousands of years flying in a spaceship, jeremy. There are much more efficient means of transportation.
The achievement of that level of thinking, (scientific, intellectual), is when a species "become of age", so to speak, and manage to take off, (provided it has been achieved naturally, not from stolen and/or reverse-engineered samples). It is a sort of natural barrier they have to first reach, (and then pass(!)), in order to be able to evolute.
No, I am not talking about all those "higher spiritual consciousnesses of divine whole" and other rubbish like that - there are plenty of malevolent beasts out there, eager to "boot and loot", as somebody put it some time ago in one of the threads in my tribe; pure evil, without even a hint of regard to anybody's lives but their own - we have them here, so, clearly, others have them to; sometimes, to the extent of whole species being a "knot of pure unadulterated rage". Heck, watch Men in Black I, for example. (for the love of god, to those fucked in head - this is not the basis of my views on the topic)
You want to learn what it feels like to be thought of as a mean for somebody’s survival and nothing else? – Here’s a good way of doing it:
Make some preparations, such as body armor, (plates and such), arrange for back-up in case of emergency, and go to, say, Africa. Once there, set your people with rifles around the field, mount the body armor, and get out in the open, for everyone to see you.
Now, keep your head pointed down to the ground to show that you are prey, and wait for a bunch of lions to “swing by”. I guarantee to you, this will answer a-a-a-all your questions, when a pair of huge canines locks onto your head.
Oh, and for an extra kick, make sure that when they do that, you are facing them head on – the throat you are looking at is where you will be passing through on the way to his stomach….
He doesn’t hate you, he is not jealous of you in any way, he doesn’t want your house, or car, or bank account. He is -simply- hungry, and he -simply- wants to eat you, in order to survive, that’s all.
...
-
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Tue, May 5, 2009 - 2:50 PMawesome posts everybody
thx
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Tue, May 5, 2009 - 2:58 PM"You see, your line of thought is a little off about the ability to travel in space. This is our typical way of thinking - linear. Yours, mine, all of us.
There exist many other ways to travel in a much different, and clever, way than just in a straight line from point A to point B. "
This is why I added the caveat that our understanding of the laws of physics, letting a body made of matter move faster than the speed of light, is either breakable or wrong. Obviously if a physical alien is appearing here on earth and it is moving great distances in small amounts of time, then something else is at play outside of our body of knowledge.
You are obviously either working off of knowledge or on an assumption that our understanding of how to move matter is incorrect. In that case I would love to hear what you know or what information you are basing the assumptions on. The only things I have heard so far are postulated ideas from scientists that amount to science fiction at best. Having grown up on Star Trek and Star Wars I would love nothing more than a hyperdrive and a photon torpedo (mixing my sci-fi metaphors here...). ;) -
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Tue, May 5, 2009 - 4:10 PMPhoton torpedo = missile armed with a graser (gamma-ray laser) or xraser (x-ray laser) like those described by David Weber in his Honor Harrington Series. Outside what we can do now, but not by much ( which is scary). -
-
Re: Why we shouldn't hide our problems from ET
Wed, May 6, 2009 - 7:41 AMNo shit... :)
It is a heck of scary. Indeed.
...
To jeremy,
I understand you, jeremy. I would love to be able to explain some of the ideas, (unfortunately, not mine yet, in any case), about the different ways of travelling, or "matter moving" as you've put it, (like the expression, though). However, I am not qualified well enough to be able to do that; simply because I am not there yet with my scientific background - I am only a student.
I can fairly certainly say that quite a number of the ideas, and propositions, on the topic that I was made aware of, are to a high degree plausible and reproducible, let's put it this way. My level of education/awareness of facts, however low it is at this moment, has begun, (if I may say so), allowing me to at least being able to see the general shape of (an) idea, when I hear it, and "construct" a somewhat educated guess as to its actual plausibility. However, I haven't verbalized them for myself first, yet, to the extent of being able to intelligibly convey that to a listener.
Unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to directly participate in any of those projects, simply due to the security clearance one would need high enough to be approved - I am a foreigner here, (even though a perm. res.). Plus, on top of that, I know "The Truth", and they know that I know it; so, I will never be more than a "scabbed dog" here, (forgive me my loose translation from another language).
I remember the absurd moment I saw on TV. I believe it was on Jay Leno's show a couple of years ago, or so. Madeleine Albright was a guest. So, they were talking about this and that, and then Jay asked something about her work as the Secretary of State and some nuclear weapons treaty or something, (I don't remember by now), and she said that even though she was the third, (or fourth?), person in line to be the president, (in case if the first two or three were out of commission), they still didn't let her to be present during the meetings when nuclear weapons and possible ways of response in case of nuclear war were held. And when she asked why, they answered - because she was a foreigner, because she wasn't born in America...
...
Yes, the most interesting and fascinating stuff happens where military is involved; however, this means that everything you do will be used against people, and for the purposes of causing an ever so quick and efficient death, when they are ready to cleanse this planet. That is why I chose the most peaceful field in science I could find - Astronomy.
...
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
