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www.mikebrownsplanets.com/2009/...w.html
"Titan has fog at the south pole! All of those bright sparkly reddish white patches are fog banks hanging out at the surface in Titan's late southern summer."
"Titan has fog at the south pole! All of those bright sparkly reddish white patches are fog banks hanging out at the surface in Titan's late southern summer."
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Re: Fog on Titan?
Fri, August 28, 2009 - 12:34 PMAlmost sounds light Sherlock Holmes' London. But don't light that pipe. -
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Re: Fog on Titan?
Fri, August 28, 2009 - 4:46 PMIt's not "don't light that pipe," but can't light that pipe. Titan is both to cold and lacks enough oxygen to light a pipe. -
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Re: Fog on Titan?
Fri, August 28, 2009 - 5:00 PMWhich begs the question. If you introduce an astronaut in a suit with a lander, would leaked oxygen be dangerous in that environment? -
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Re: Fog on Titan?
Fri, August 28, 2009 - 6:57 PMThere is a concept of the Limiting Reactant, ( www.chem.tamu.edu/class/maj...miting.htm ). Even all the introduced so-called "outside oxygen", (I just spelled Oxygen with an "i"), would be just a meager nothing in comparison to the immensity of the cloud, (just one of them, not to mention the rest).
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Re: Fog on Titan?
Sat, August 29, 2009 - 2:34 AMSo is it that on Titan oxygen would be like methane on earth? That is burn until it runs out? Like in a Bunsen burner or some apparatus. -
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Re: Fog on Titan?
Sat, August 29, 2009 - 9:12 AMBunsen Burner - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunsen_burner
The Oxygen in the burner comes from Earth’s atmosphere, and the gas is in, say a pipe or a canister of some sort. In this case, the limiting reactant is this very gas, (say, Propane, or Methane, or whatever). Therefore, all the Propane/Methane/whatever will run out, and we will still have a whole atmosphere, (full of), Oxygen, (that is why you do not burn down the planet when you start up a camp fire – due to the Laws of Science, (Chemistry), - firewood is the limiting reactant).
On Titan it is exactly backwards - it has Methane, but no Oxygen; so, no matter how many people, (say ten, twenty, a hundred), would introduce the Oxygen from their pressurized space-suits into that environment, it will still be not enough to burn it all, because all of the oxygen will have been used way before anything, (burning), is even noticed. What you could see is like a tiny misfired match - "psh-st", and gone.
Therefore, in order to light up the whole planet, one needs the appropriate amount of Oxygen provided - which depends on the proportion of the reaction of one element to the other. Say, PURELY FIGURATIVELY speaking, just to illustrate the concept, (I don't know exactly, and too lazy right now to go and search for it online on my Saturday morning, don't quote me on that one - Troy would tell you a-a-all about it), it takes two moles of Oxygen to react with one mole of Methane; so, you would need TWO(!) atmospheres of Oxygen, the size of the atmosphere of Titan, to burn it all.
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Re: Fog on Titan?
Sat, August 29, 2009 - 11:26 AM"it takes two moles of Oxygen to react with one mole of Methane; so, you would need TWO(!) atmospheres of Oxygen, the size of the atmosphere of Titan, to burn it all."
It takes between 1.5 moles of O2 (resulting in 2 H2O and 1 CO) and 2 moles of O2 (resulting in 2 H2O and 1 CO2) to burn CH4 (methane). The fact that one can have incomplete combustion resulting in CO is something most people forget about.
Another important factor in this type of problem is the ratio of fuel to oxidizer (it doesn't have to be oxygen, could be fluorine gas or even chlorine gas under the right circumstances). If the ratio is either to high or to low the reaction will not propagate. The required ratio depends on the fuel, oxidizer, initial temperature (if the reaction propagates, it will supply its own heat to keep it going) and initial pressure (again to high or low will cause problems). -
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Re: Fog on Titan?
Sat, August 29, 2009 - 7:18 PMYes, Troy. as I have mentioned earlier, there is way more to that than what I've talked about/mentioned. I will repeat myself here - I gave the most basic, simplified, explanation of the -Concept- to eric; without getting into a deeper involvement.
There, of cause, can be other elements involved/used. However, since he mentioned oxygen in astronauts' spacesuits, I used Oxygen in my example.
You are a professional chemist, however, you do not need to lacerate one's throat to express it, (or so it came out to me; sorry if I misunderstood you). I specifically mentioned your exceeding qualifications in my reply.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Fog on Titan?
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 6:33 AMYou misunderstood, I was just adding more info, but no worries.
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